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I ask a lot of questions in today’s Eve Online PODCAST, I’d like some answers!

#eveonline #eveonlinebeginnersguide #eveonlinetutorial


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  1. I can see why you would like it to be optional , but I completely disagree and think without something like Zkill (which is merely a statistic tracking tool) Eve would die quicker and it would upset far more people than it would please.

    If you PVP , Zkill is what makes Eve , Eve – Getting to link your kills to buddies , showing them what you accomplished all alone –

    Unfortunately one mans triumph is usually another mans defeat , ya cant all be winners or always win , but that what makes it feel so good when ya finally do win , n you can prove it with Zkill .

    Its ike taking photo of the fish ya caught and some one saying , "Think of how the fish feels?"

    Eve all about your actions and interactions. Removing Zkill is completely removing a pilot history and it couldn't possibly be a more terrible idea

  2. I agree with most of what you say. If you look at 2 basic types of players, killers and non-killers. zKillboard is not so great for players like myself in the non-killer category. All it displays is the amount of times you died. What about the times a kill attempt was thwarted and the pilot got away? What about the amount of times you took your ship out of the hangar and successfully completed a days play without being killed? These are the types of things that are successes to non-killer players no matter how mundane that may sound to some. These types of successes are not displayed. I would like at least the option to opt out of zKill. I said earlier 2 basic player types, killer and non-killer. I actually sit somewhere in-between in that, I will protect and defend my wormhole space but I do not actively seek PvP as a game main stay.

  3. I have to admit that Zkill made me stop playing with my first EVE character. I got such shaming losses with bling ships when I was starting that I couldn't handle that people would see them attached to my character every time they searched my name. So I stopped playing and came back later with a new character, but I almost never returned to the game because of this.

  4. I think you are right. I got more or less "lucky" that in my early days people warned me about it. I don't even understand the reasoning behind why its bad to have losses. Do these corps/alliances fear that these players are bad or something simply from looking at the numbers?

    It should be optional or at least make it anonymous. Let them have their big numbers for the win but let the "losers" only lose their ship and not put them on a pillory.

  5. Low risk vs reward = ganking
    there's no "/pvp 0" command to opt out of PVP in high sec which would make Zkill reflect reality better. There has to be some benefit to opting in to PVP in high sec like a 50% boost to training time. Switching back and forth should not be allowed at least till 24 hours have passed.

    What's up with the poll?

  6. One year in, I have less than 10 ships lost and 0 kills, I won't kill players as I dislike Pvp 100%. I've learned to use Zkill to my advantage. As an explorer and industrialist, situational awareness makes you rich. Nothing is better when you know exactly how the hunters in local will behave, and tbh they are not the most innovative people, so just look for classic patterns lol. And I can tell you, it's such a damn good feeling when that desperate Pvp guy who's looking for the next Zkill entry just gets to see my rear thrusters and my middle finger, because I am one step ahead hehe. Omg, wait … I am a passive Pvp guy LOL. And yes, Zkill entries should be optional. o7

  7. Your first example was using a Chremoas, a ship that literally cannot be replaced, so that person would play risk adverse no matter what. People want fights they know they can win, because losing means time/money lost. The cheaper the ship the less risk adverse people will play. You would have to completely remove killmails from the game to achieve what you are talking about. Even before the days of api, we still posted our kills manually to sites like eve-kill and zkill. Privacy settings are irrelevant as killmails involve more than one party, if yours are private but mine are not, why would your privacy settings affect my kills?

  8. The central issue of course that there is a culture in EVE where corps place importance in killboard stats AND that the way killboards register stats reward blobbing and risk-averse behaviour. Killboards, even before Zkill, have decided to give 'points' for any contribution to a kill, even insignificant ones. One-tenth of a kill is just as big a green entry as a solo kills. It also give rise to logistics pilots carrying drones to 'get in on the kill' so that they would also get points because their contribution wasn't recognized.

    Most players in EVE that join corps are taught this 'killboard culture' and assume this is normal way of looking at things, and they start to get worried about how their 'killboard' looks even if they weren't worried about that before.

    Even some players who have billions of isk in the bank worry about losing a Rifter if it would make them look bad on the killboards.

    I've met players who thought they everything ended up on Zkill automatically and there wasn't even any choice involved, as if Zkill was a service of CCP.

    Players do want to have some metric to see how good they are doing when competing against others. And there was a lot of debate who killed who in the past. There was even the mystery of trying to find out some enemy's fit, because all you had to go by were the modules that dropped. I'd like to have an easy accessible records of my exploits, but definitely don't want a public available one.

    It is very convenient when researching your opponent: is this guy risk averse or not, does he fly blinged-out ships or not. I'm happy with my red killboard, if players do look at it, they will underestimate me gaining me more fights.

    But, generally speaking, the way the culture is now, killboard discourage fights.

  9. I am a veteran player and myself never cared about Zkill, but I admit it's useful to assess the threat of other players in local and the recent kills in a specific system. I do agree it should be optional, when I learned about zkill it was odd to me that they would do this without your permission. They even specifically say in their terms you CAN'T request to have your data removed. I mean you can, but they'll just refuse.

  10. griefers are what they are. whether they use zkill to justify that sort of existence or not doesn't change a thing. toxic people do toxic things, period. there is nothing wrong with pvp. there is nothing wrong with zkill. there IS a problem with corporations, especially null corps, in the way they view and use new or inexperienced players and always has been. most corporations (especially null corps) kill the sandbox experience for players by introducing the concept of "not playing the game the right way" into EVE Online. zkill is a useful tool. pvp gives the game some flavor (and with the heavily reduced player base, is practically a non-issue). toxic corporations run and populated by toxic individuals has been killing the game for a long time, especially when they are all ccp caters to because their mentality is conducive to monetization.

  11. Eve has a massive risk averse problem. Partly because of zkill which enables toxic bragging of kill mails. i want to fly my haw dread in low sec for some fun but alliance says no because "zkill"

  12. I have been playing for 15 years. I just came back from a 2 year break. I personally love that we have a system like zkill. Its braggings rights, its intel on other characters, and its also a pain in the ass sometimes.

    Just joined a group and they are so scared of posting losses on the killboard it becomes unfun to a degree.

    I love getting into some squabbles. Its the risk that keeps most of the people playing. Some risk aversion is good for us. I think it matters most with the people you play with. Not so much the mechanics of the game.

  13. That won't work. Any corp that cares about its members deaths will insist they have them showing on Z kill.

    If you go back to pre kill boards corps and alliances would regularly lie to their member's about how wars were going and that wasn't good for the players in the dark either. So there's pros & cons to it. That's why Band of Brothers produced the first kill board way way back.

    Any corp I've been in has always horrendously mocked anyone who cared about their zkill ratio.

  14. When you get killed and you're not on zkill but it appears there anyway that means the other guy is on zkill so we have an argument does your animomity trump my bragging rights?

    Oh and it's not an invasion of privacy you agreed for people to know about your characters activities as by playing the game you agree to the EULA.

  15. I suspect my story isn't unique, but personally I've had to create a new character to do throw-away pvp with in order to "get gud", because of a toxic ex-corp who decided to follow my mains on zkill and "vote" on every loss to let me know they've seen it and think I'm a scrub. I actually had to log out from zkill and kill the ESI scope because I lost a ship to an NPC and they started voting on the npc kill to mock me. My hope is that once I get better at pvp I can start doing it on my mains again and actually get into some decent alliances… like you say the problem is at 70% dangerous and basically inactive they aren't interested. But I dream that one day they'll be BTFO'd because they were such assholes.

    Here's the thing, personally I'm not against killboards, I like being able to have a record of my achievements in pvp and also to be able to see what the meta is and how dangerous pilots are. I just dislike zkill for a multitude of reasons. We had killboards before zkill, for instance battleclinic and I think eve-kill were around before then, but they worked very differently. On those older killboards you were not rewarded for "punching down", so that if you got a solo kill using a Kronos to kill a Thorax for instance, you wouldn't be awarded any points. To climb up the rankings on those killboards you had to actually be good at the game, you couldn't just mooch around on easy kills. On zkill, every solo kill except for very specific ships (shuttles, ventures, corvettes, etc) awards more than one point, even if you're punching down. Generally in fact you'll usually get way more than that, 5 is on the low side, I regularly see 30+ points.

    What this essentially means is that if you can afford a powerful ship, say a marauder or t3c or something, then even if you are dunked by a fleet you are guaranteed to score enough solo kills on your way down that you'll be points and ships positive. You won't be isk-positive on the fight, but guess what metric zkill doesn't factor into the "dangerous/snuggly" stats? Yep, isk… so basically zkill rewards you for being a wealthy, moderately skilled player. Unless you get very unlucky and get alpha'd, you can pad your zkill with ships like that all day long. And btw padding is definitely a thing for the elite players, they have specific ships and fits they fly in specific places just to farm for their killboard.

    Personally my opinion is that CCP needs to bring in an ingame killboard and end the ESI scope for kills so that there's no longer any zkill. The kills themselves need to be anonymized, so that I can see WHAT people have killed, but not WHO. That way corps and individuals can still assess player competence, but they can't use the killboard to harass or be toxic. If points are to be awarded, they should be for punching up, not punching down. It doesn't tell me how "dangerous" a player is simply because they can use a Kronos to kill a Thorax, a day old newbro with a credit card could do that. Also CCP would be able to effectively end gank-padding by making it so that kills that are associated with a CONCORD loss don't count.