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EVE Online ship sales recently caused a bit of a storm for the game’s developers. However CIG have made massive success of a similar technique. Why then, does one community embrace what the other rejects?

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  1. Just for clarity – I personally don't agree with ship sales for real world money in any game. The point of the video however is to ask; why is it a success for Star Citizen, but a failure for EVE Online.

  2. How does insurance work on Star Citizen? I played EVE for several years when it came out and the insurance on that was pointless. For about 1/3 the price of the ship you could insure it for a short time and then you didn't get 100% of the cost and you didn't get the price of your modules back which often cost more than the ship.

    I would be very pissed off if I actually paid for a ship in EVE Online with real money and moments later got ganked and lost it.

  3. So am I the only one whose gonna point out that CCP basically went from side stepping the Economy, to double dipping while pretending to give players a kick back? (because now they're getting cash for the ship, and cash for the manhours to make the ship in the form of PLEX)

    That is, by far, the most EVE thing I ever heard CCP do. I don't know if I should be disgusted or impressed.

  4. I'm a busy man. One of the thing that draws me greatly to SC is, if I want to have a certain type of gameplay, I can access it right away with real money. It's not about the journey to unlock a certain gameplay. But the GAMEPLAY itself that matters to me.

  5. EVe Online: Entirely player driven economy. 99% of everything you buy ingame; someone else in the chain mined the minerals, sold the minerals on the market, researched the blueprints to mass produce the item efficiently, moved the item to where you're buying it and put it up for sale/auction. Ships, weapons, modules, consumables, commodities, etc.

    Likewise, before people were allowed to buy skillpoints; you weren't able to mine/build/research/fly all the stuff necessary to do all that, until you trained the proper character skills to do it all efficiently.

    So when EVE Online starts selling skillpoints and ships; they're killing the hard work and time invested in a game that requires years of investment and planning to do all that.

    Star Citizen selling ships for a game in production, to help fund development, build hype for the game that isn't going to have a monthly subscription; you're not forced to buy the ships, you can spend $45 and have a starter package; and if you want to buy a ship to 'hit the ground running' you're not really breaking anything; because other players aren't losing potential ingame money by having not sold a ship, and you're only as good as your ability to fly your own ship(whereas EVE Online you're actually locked out of flying ships, using weapons/equipment/modules until you train a bare minimum of skills for each, and if you don't max them out to a degree you're at a decent disadvantage, and that skill training can take months even if you specialize).

    CCP got greedy despite having monthly subs, and there are a lot of EVE Online players who have atleast 2-3 accounts that they pay for.

    It's all based on what's been established in the game. EVE Players who have invested years into the game are being cheated when CCP sells ship packages and skillpoint packs, because a new player is circumventing everything that made EVE unique; you earned it ingame and time invested; or you didn't progress.

    Aswell, atleast in Star Citizen when you invest money into a ship you've bought with real money, it has life time insurance on it; you'll never lose it and will need to wait a pre-determined amount of time to get it back(depending on how you lost it, where it was lost, and what size of ship it was), in EVE typically when you lose your ship, even if insured, you're not really getting anything close to it's real value back. So you spend $25 for a ship pack in EVE, undock in a hi-sec system that should be 'safe' and you get blown up right outside the docking bay(this can happen at anytime and is allowed, part of the game); if you insured the ship, you're not getting your money back, you're getting an ingame 'isk' insurance payment depending on how much you insured the ship for, but it never covers the cost of the ships on the player market that you have to buy, because the economy is ENTIRELY player driven, so your new Battle Cruiser that you spent $25 might cost 45mil isk ingame(depending on region, inflation, scams, etc), which might take you 3-4 hours to earn back to buy a new ship.

    3-4 hours to get a comparable ship to start playing, or another $25 to get another and try again?

    Player choice; choose with your wallets. =]

  6. why would they need to sell ships there already making enough money from Subs if you by pure game time in bulk its around $170 AUD for one year or $220 AUD a year if you pay one month at time. never had to think about how much it cost to play this game because i use to grind a lot to buy Plex with in game money but as real life got more crazy and having to run the farm by my self now i dont have the time to do all that grinding add on i had a failing out with my Corp and left i am now back in High sec even if i had the time and Plex prices went back to what they use to be many years a go grinding for plex in high sec is nigh impossible unless you play from server up to down time.

  7. I remember ages ago CGI said that any ship you back would be a starter ship in its line and when the game releases there will be a lot more ships. I don’t think this is the case anymore, I can’t fathom why someone would just buy their way to the end game?

  8. Star citizen has the same issue, it’s just because cig built the game backwards, we haven’t arrived to the point that game play would be impacted by ship sales. It will be a problem, some day. Once they figure out what even is an economy in star citizen.

    Respects to eve onlines economy, it is very well done. Unfortunately eve does have gated content behind pvp walls, it makes it a difficult game to get into though.

  9. 0:36 I will never attempt to dismiss an argument as "apples and oranges." In the wise words of mister Paul Harrel, "Typically, a person attempting to dismiss a claim as 'apples and oranges' is really just trying to defend an indefensible position."

  10. "Why is it ok for Star Citizen but not ok for Eve Online" is a simple question with an easy answer: It's not ok for Star Citizen either, they just do it anyway. The SC player base are either whales who like the MTX, dreamers who think the money will eventually result in an amazing game, or people who consider putting up with the MTX part of the price for enjoying what there is of the game. Eve Online's player base are none of those things so of course they're going to protest. Every EO player that would be willing to put up with, or actually want, ridiculous MTX has already made the jump to Star Citizen.

  11. The reason it works for Star Citizen and not Eve is explained perfectly by your video. Eve has player driven economy, Star Citizen does not. The ships in Star Citizen are basically functional cosmetics. You by the ship you like to fly. CIG has balanced things (for now) so that a good pilot can take out just about any other ship.

  12. I mean, let's be real. CIG will absolutely keep ship sales around even after SC finally releases, there is no moral superiority here. CIG's shit stinks just as bad as CCP's… it's just that CIG's game still has a future and is generally quite fun to play, whereas Eve Online…

  13. Buying stuff in game to jump past a loop of endless grinding is in my eyes not a problem. That no way means the player using real money can compete with the good players. Let us who have little time to play games in general get to enjoy the gaming aspect without needing to grind ourselves to death to get certain stuff, that's my answer, and now and again players who own to much in a game like EVE should get disrupted a little bit so to make the game more interesting.
    Also when you can grind and get stuff in game it is perfect for people who have a lot of time on their hand to do it and enjoy it aswell, so it should satisify both parties where the game will be accessable for most players. It is not good that certain core players get to decide what is good for a game when in most cases it's not, especially for the wallet of the gaming company, and there are other ways to earn money through like say ship skins and alike that you can choose to be apart of it or not.

  14. I'm still looking for somewhat more of an exploratory type of "star" world, one that isn't based on me having to mine stuff, buy stuff or having to worry about another player taking things from me away much less destroying my stuff. Just a fun MMORPG to "hang out" with people

  15. Main issue with CCP selling ships is where do they get the inventory. If CCP purchased the ships at market rates from players and in turn sold that inventory for real money, I don't think there'd be such outrage. The game is fundamentally built around player economic activity, so bypassing that is incredibly stupid.
    Players buying PLEX for real money and flipping those for in-game items of any sort has never been a problem.

  16. Played eve for 10 years, ran FATAL Alliance, had fun, but the grind and time became too much. While its been a long time since I played, I understand why eve players are not happy, and buying ships for cash is wrong. SC is not even a proven game yet, so you can't really compare and I think the model will fail when they go live (reason why this will newer happen).

  17. Ok, Obsidian, next time, compare Eve Online space gameplay to the mating ritual of the South-Indian Treegrabber. You know what the saying "comparing apples and oranges" means and why it is being used. Trying to sound smart to find a loophole with eloquent wordings helps nobody. And the answer to your question is simple: 1. SC is a crowdfunded game by a veteran space game dev and EvE is a game produced and funded by a large company that people buy into to play. 2. People playing EvE are set in a way of paying and playing that stretches over decades (Monthly subscription), SC is a product of a way of building and paying for that from this age (crowdfunding: paying for a chunk of the total cost and be done with it). 3. EvE's UPS is a player created economy and player controlled environment, but after that it is just a conventional MMORPG. SC promises everything (Lifesize and completely interactable ships, complete planets filled with wildlife and other environmental experiences, life as we know it, but in a virtual future where space travel is a thing). It's an FPS, spaceship Sim, a trucking sim, an economy sim, an adventure game, a social chat sim, it is everything in one. SC and EvE are both a fruit, but SC is a melon while EvE is a strawberry, different in every other way except both are space games and both let you fly space ships.

  18. In SC when you lose a ship you actually get it back. If you bought a ship in EVE and it gets ganked you are just out that money. No one in their right mind would buy a ship in EVE for real life cash unless it became permanent. People will just buy isk instead.

  19. Never played EVE online but it sounds like players make and sell ships. I can see why you would not want to ruin the player ran economy.

    SC ships are not player made and have zero effect on any game mechanics except for what you have to play with. So I don't really see the draw back to selling ships.

    Most people that seem to hate on all the ships I have bought are normally the ones that follow up with I wish I could….. but at the end of the day I made the cash I spend so let me spend it. If it ruins the core function of the game then move on to another game!!

  20. Pay to win or play to win, two valid ways to play a game. If you have a busy life but have money then you can't compete with people that spend hours and hours playing the game. You might help level the progress playing field where both players have the same in game equipment but the casual player can't compete with the hardcore player. Maybe the two should be set up on two separate instances so they never mix.

  21. Hmm, buying ships in EvE … thats an interesting concept. Across all my characters I've lost probably close to 1000. A ship is really not something that is of value to a veteran. Not even capital ships and dreds are have any particular significance emotionally or economically.

    If someone cones along and buys and fits ships for real money, he is not skipping content, rather, he is setting himself up to learn the first lesson of EvE the hardest way possible. That is actually … content.